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Home My WebLink About2009-11-23MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING BOARD OF ALDERMEN RIVERSIDE, MISSOURI Tuesday, November 23, 2009 6:00 p.m. The Boazd of Aldennen for the City of Riverside, Missouri, met in a special workshop session in the Board of Aldermen Chambers at City Hall, 2950 NW Vivion Road, Riverside, Missouri, on Tuesday, November 23, 2009. Mayor Rose called the meeting to order at 6:02 p.m. Those in attendance were Mayor Kathy Rose, Aldermen Brad Cope, Mike Fuller, Ron Super, Dave Hurt, Bernie Bruns, and Aaron Thatcher. Also present were David Blackbum, City Administrator, Tom Wooddell, Director of Public Works, Sarah Wagner, Administrative Clerk, Mike Duffy, Community Development Director, Meredith Hauck, Coordinator of Communications and External Affairs, Greg Mills, Director of Public Safety, and Donna Resz, Finance Officer. Bill No. 2009-162 Approving Alderman Thatcher moved to place Bill No. 2009-162 on its first reading, Payment of Indebtedness said Bill authorizing the payment of certain indebtedness listed therein, seconded by Alderman Super, the vote was: Yes: Aldermen Thatcher, Cope, Fuller, Bruns, Super, and Hurt. Motion carried. Ordinance No. 2009-162 Alderman Hurt moved to place Bill No. 2009-162 on its second reading, and Approved upon passage of the same become Ordinance 2009-162, seconded by Alderman Bruns, the vote was: Yes: Alderman Thatcher, Cope, Fuller, Bruns, Super and Hurt. Motion carried. Workshop-Legal Services City Administrator, David Blackbum began explaining the breakdown of the City's current legal services. The City uses Brian Hall for general legal service, Joe Bednar is used for Levee matters and Debora Polk for TIF and IDA matters. Blackburn showed a slide of how attorney hours have been broken down in the past. A majority of attorney time is spent on genera] issues and everything else is specialized. When looking for legal service for a municipality, there are two general methods. One is to outsource legal services to a firm, and the other is to hire an in-house attorney as part of the staff. The cities of Gladstone, Independence, Lee's Summit, Raytown and North Kansas City all have in-house attorneys. Blackburn introduced Tom Barze, City Attorney for North Kansas City. He has been the City Attorney for North Kansas City for 37 years. He began serving them when he was in private practice and later joined then as a full-time staff member 7 years ago. Barze explained that even with in-house legal counsel it is still necessary to have some outside representation because municipal law has so many different aspects. He explained that he has no official staff. He does most everything himself with some help from the City Clerk. When he became a Page 1 full-time employee he began to review more documents and answer more questions because then he did before because he was more accessible. Mayor Rose asked what fees the City paid for. Barze replied that the City covers his bar dues, CLE's, and other membership dues. Mayor Rose asked what he spends a bulk of his time doing. Bazze replied that he has very few 40 hours weeks. Most of the time he is there much longer. A lot of what he spends his time on depends on what is going on in the city. Mayor Rose asked what his involvement was in ordinances. Barze replied that he drafts ordinances with staff s help. He also writes legal opinions and attends all board meetings and executive sessions. Mayor Rose asked if he was available to all departments. Barze replied that he is available to all departments and to all boards and commissions. Mayor Rose asked that when the City has to hire an outside firm to work on something, who do they report to. Benze replied that all outside legal services report to him. He helps to coordinate them, but has them show up at meetings to present on their issues. Alderman Thatcher asked what the advantage is to having an in-house attomey versus outsourcing. Barze replied that what is important is that the City finds the right fit for them and it could be in-house or it could be outsourcing. It is easier to make changes if you have a bad fit if you outsource legal services. If you hire someone in-house they will most likely want some sort of contractual agreement to stay with the City for a certain amount of time in order to give up their private practice. It is also important to note that there are some very good large and small firms that could provide outside services. Alderman Thatcher asked if there were any recommendations of areas that shouldn't be served by the same person or firm. Barze replied that a good firm will tell you when they have a conflict. When you have an in-house attomey they can help by reviewing invoices and catching any mistakes from the outside firm. A downfall to having an in- house attomey is that they have a hard time trying large cases because they do not have the staff to help them prepare. Alderman Hurt asked if there could be an issue with an in-house attomey when it comes to determining if something needs to be outsourced. Bazze replied that sometimes ego can get in the way, but a good attorney will Page 2 want the best results for the client and should be able to ask for help Alderman Hurt asked if there was a determining factor for hiring in-house versus outsourcing. Barze replied that it can be difficult to get a good attorney who is making $300,000 a year to leave a private practice to come work for a municipality. If you aze going to hire in-house then you need to spend time to get the right fit. Alderman Super asked what percent of business was conducted in-house and what percent needed to be outsourced. Barze replied that it really depends on what is going on at any given time. Alderman Super commented that over the years the City has spent a lot of hours on legal services. Bazze commented that big law firms expect a couple thousand hours in service. He offered to go through the City's list of what has been done in the past and see what an average in-house attorney would be able to do. Alderman Fuller asked if the City went with a law firm if they would have to use the same firm for everything. Bazze replied that if the City goes with a big firm for general legal services it would still most likely work with other firms on more specialized issues. Alderman Fuller asked if the City's goes with a large firm to handle general legal services, wouldn't the firm try to funnel more of the specialized areas to other parts of that same firm. Barze replied that it is possible, that is why the City needs to designate someone as a gatekeeper to monitor that activity. Alderman Bruns asked if the legal fees go up or down when you hire an in- house attorney. Barze replied that in the case of North Kansas City the cost was less, but it all depends on the situation. Alderman Bruns asked if attorneys that work as in-house attorneys for municipalities tend to be the ones with more or less expierence. Barze replied that they tend to be the more experienced ones. Alderman Bruns asked if in-house attorneys only worked for the city or if they had other clients. Bazze replied that he strongly urges the City to put it in their contract that they only work for Riverside if you choose to hire an in-house attorney. Mayor Rose asked if there were any additional insurance costs for having an in-house attorney. Page 3 Barze replied that he had the City purchase tail insurance because he was coming out of a private practice. He also commented that if the City chooses to hire a firm they should drive a hard bargain because it is a very competitive market. Mayor Rose commented that the Board needs to decide if they want to hire an in-house attorney or an outside firm. Alderman Bruns said that the City could advertise for an in-house city attorney and see what response it gets. Mayor Rose commented that it maybe difficult to find an in-house attorney Alderman Super commented that a larger firm may try to build more hours with the City. Alderman Thatcher commented that the City could go with one firm to represent municipal matters and then get different firms to specialize in other areas. Mayor Rose asked if the City should parallel the efforts by looking for an in- house attorney and a firm at the same time. Alderman Thatcher said that by paralleling the two the City might send a mixed message. It was decided that the City would first look for an in-house attorney and see what type of response it receives. Adjournment Alderman Bruns moved to adjourn the meeting and Alderman Thatcher 7:51 p.m. seconded. The vote was: Yes: Aldermen Fuller, Thatcher, Bruns, Cope, Hurt, and Super. Motion carried. Meeting was adjourned at 7:51 .m. ..~ Sarah Wagner, Adminis ve Clerk Page 4